ADRIAN FLORIDO, HOST:

House Democrats held a rare Sunday meeting today to discuss President Biden and his future in the campaign. A number of top Democrats in the House told leaders on that call that they think Biden should step aside. But not all Democrats agree, and Biden has been clear that he is not planning to drop out. Here he was today at a rally in Pennsylvania.

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PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: We’re on the cusp of getting so much done. I really mean it.

FLORIDO: Joining us now to talk through all of this is NPR congressional reporter Barbara Sprunt. Hi, Barbara.

BARBARA SPRUNT, BYLINE: Hey.

FLORIDO: So tell us more about this meeting. What do we know about it?

SPRUNT: Well, it was a private call with top House Democrats. And according to several sources familiar with the call, four lawmakers who are ranking members on committees spoke up and said they want to see a change at the top of the ticket. They are Jerry Nadler of New York, Adam Smith of Washington, Mark Takano of California and Joe Morelle of New York. And as for the meeting itself, it’s unusual for this type of call to happen in the first place. Lawmakers are returning to Capitol Hill tomorrow. No doubt, there will be a lot of chatter on this exact topic.

FLORIDO: Yeah.

SPRUNT: So it’s notable that they felt the need to get on the same page before they came back and had to face a flood of reporters on the Hill asking questions about where things stand.

FLORIDO: Barbara, we’re talking about a small number of people here. What does this tell us about where Democrats are headed as a whole?

SPRUNT: That’s right. I mean, this is four lawmakers from today, joining, I should say, another five House Democrats who in the last few days have also called on President Biden to step aside. That’s according to a count that NPR is keeping. House members have a lot at stake. They worry that Biden, after his poor debate performance, could be a drag on their hopes to retake control of the House. But there are vocal supporters of the president. As of right now, 13 Democratic lawmakers and governors have publicly backed Biden, including governors Gretchen Whitmer of Michigan and Gavin Newsom of California, two rising stars in the party that are often discussed as people who could replace Biden on the ticket.

FLORIDO: Where are the top Democratic leaders on this issue?

SPRUNT: Well, leaders have largely avoided talking about this. People like House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries, Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer haven’t made a definitive call. Former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi was asked about Biden’s poor debate performance and what it means more broadly for the campaign. And she told MSNBC she thinks it’s a legitimate question to ask whether it was, in her words, an episode or a condition. Now, Biden himself, in an interview with ABC on Friday, said he doesn’t think that those leaders are going to come to him and say it’s time to go. And more than that, he said that the parameter for him getting out of the race is the Lord Almighty coming down and saying so.

FLORIDO: Of course, that hasn’t happened.

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FLORIDO: And Biden is campaigning. How’s he looking out there?

SPRUNT: Well, he’s been trying to prove the critics wrong, showing that he has, you know, what it takes to be in the race, trying to show that that poor debate was a one-off. He’s making several stops in the swing state of Pennsylvania. He went to a union hall in Harrisburg, a Pentecostal church in Philadelphia, where the pastor led a call and response in support of the president. He’s given unscripted remarks. He’s shaken dozens and dozens of hands, campaigned on a really hot day. But that’s all very different than a debate. And that debate was broadcast to millions of people in prime time, and that’s what’s causing all of this concern among some of these House Democrats.

FLORIDO: All right. I’ve been speaking with NPR congressional reporter Barbara Sprunt. Thanks, Barbara.

SPRUNT: Thank you.

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