ARI SHAPIRO, HOST:

One of the strongest moments during Kamala Harris’ last campaign for president was when she said this in a 2019 primary debate.

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VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS: You know, there was a little girl in California who was part of the second class to integrate her public schools, and she was bussed to school every day. And that little girl was me.

CAROLE PORTER: You can call me Carole Porter, the other little girl on the bus, because that’s what Kamala calls me.

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SHAPIRO: That’s what she calls you?

PORTER: That’s what she calls me.

SHAPIRO: We’ll hear more from Carole Porter in a moment. The Harris campaign this year has the shortest runway of any U.S. presidential election in modern history, while the Republican nominee, Donald Trump, has been the focus of national attention for decades. So this week, we’re going to get a crash course in the life of the likely Democratic nominee, Vice President Harris – five conversations with people who knew her before she arrived in Washington as a senator from California. We’re calling the series I Knew Her When.

Today, childhood friend Carole Porter, whose family lived a few doors down from the house in the redlined Berkeley neighborhood, where young Kamala lived with her little sister, Maya, and their mother, Shyamala.

PORTER: We really lived in a very multicultural community that was really beautiful – very working-class to lower-working-class, I would say. You know, around the corner from where Kamala and I were is public housing. So it was really a vast range of people. Mayor Warren Widener – the first Black mayor – lived across the street from us. And we had two Oakland Raiders on our block, and Huey Newton visited us regularly.

SHAPIRO: I’m going to occasionally refer to Vice President Harris by her first name because we are talking about her childhood, and we’re…

PORTER: Yes.

SHAPIRO: …Talking about other members of…

PORTER: Yes.

SHAPIRO: …The family. What do you remember about what that little girl on the bus was like – that young Kamala Harris?

PORTER: She was confident, and she was nice, and she was a kid. Sometimes we got along, and sometimes we didn’t. But we always got back on the bus and went home together and oftentimes hung out at Shelton’s Daycare (ph). Mrs. Shelton (ph) was a matriarch of our neighborhood. Kamala and Maya and Shyamala lived above the daycare center. They had a little bungalow apartment. It’s probably two bedrooms and a bathroom.

SHAPIRO: You got to know Kamala’s mother, Shyamala, well. What would you describe as her influence on her daughter? What did Kamala learn from her mother?

PORTER: Well, I mean, the Shyamala that I remember as a child, she had an air of confidence about her. She had an air of just integrity and strength. When you saw Shyamala, you said – hello, Mrs. Harris. And, you know, she’s this 5-foot, dark-skinned Indian woman with an accent. So you can paint that picture, right?

SHAPIRO: Do you remember how Kamala, as a child, thought about her Indian identity, her mother’s Indian heritage?

PORTER: She was very proud of it. And I always remember, you know, little things that she would have – maybe from a trip to India – I don’t know if it was a piece of jewelry or something that she would show or share. And then one very poignant memory I have is, you know, we were waiting for the bus, and Kamala wanted me to come with her to her place. And she told me to look up, and her grandparents were in the window. And she wanted me to wave at her grandparents. So she’s very, very proud of her Indian heritage, her family, her name. And she’d always correct people on how to pronounce her name. And she’s very, very prideful.

SHAPIRO: And even though her father was not as much a part of her life growing up, how much did she lean into her Black identity?

PORTER: Oh, Kamala – and I can say this as myself – I’m of mixed-race too. My mother’s white. My father’s Black. And we are Black people in America because of the false construction of race to divide people. We all have to go along a line somewhere. And so in America we’re considered Black women, and that’s how our mothers raised us because that’s what they knew we would be seen as. And, you know, Regina Shelton (ph) was really helpful and supportive for Shyamala in doing that. And, you know, Kamala and Maya – and I think, Kamala has shared this – you know, has gone – went to church with Mrs. Shelton. And she had an opportunity to be around Black people and Indian people.

SHAPIRO: Yeah.

PORTER: But, you know, when we’re here in this country, because of the racist construct – I will say – of America, there’s – you know, people want to put you into a category.

SHAPIRO: So I understand that Kamala’s sister, Maya, became pregnant as a teenager, around the same time that your sister also became pregnant as a teenager. What was that time like for your families?

PORTER: It was a very beautiful time, and it was a very challenging time. And for me, this really came up when I hear people like JD Vance talk about childless women. When you say childless, what does that mean? You know, Maya had a child who was raised by Kamala, Shyamala and Maya. My sister had a child, who was raised by our family – my father, my mother and my sisters and I. We – I mean, she’s our baby. She’s our child. It was very common. It was important. That’s how we live. That’s what we do in our communities is we raise, and we lift up, and we take care of our own. So yeah, it was tough, but it was – it’s beautiful now. And we have two beautiful young ladies that were the recipients of a lot of love and care.

SHAPIRO: Given her family’s activist roots, were you surprised that she pursued a career as a prosecutor?

PORTER: You know, I wasn’t. I never really thought about it, and I kept, you know, kind of hearing people telling me this. And then I remember my dad explaining to me how important it was that she was a prosecutor. And what my dad explained to me was, you know, you don’t have a lot of Black people, and especially women, who go into the prosecutorial side of law. And that’s where the decisions are made. That’s where the systems and the structures are created. So for her to be there is really significant and really important.

SHAPIRO: Her mother, Shyamala, is no longer around.

PORTER: No.

SHAPIRO: And neither is Mrs. Shelton, who she’s referred to as a second mother – the matriarch of the neighborhood. What do you think those two women would have to say about this moment?

PORTER: (Crying) Collecting myself.

SHAPIRO: Oh.

PORTER: It would mean so much to them. They were really strong, strong women who gave everything, you know, Shyamala – for her daughters and her cancer research. And Mrs. Shelton was just a really giving, warm woman who loved all of the kids in the neighborhood. And she had the opportunity to spend a lot of quality time with Kamala and Maya. And I know she loved and cared for them a lot.

So for them to see this – which I’m sure they are in their heavenly space – it’s everything. It’s everything ’cause it’s not about Kamala’s going to be president. But it’s about Kamala having the opportunity to share some really strong, deeply rooted, important values and beliefs with other people that she was raised with – that we were raised with – in this little redline neighborhood in Berkeley, Calif. Who knew?

(LAUGHTER)

SHAPIRO: Well, Carole Porter, thank you for sharing these reminiscences with us of your childhood friend, now presidential candidate, Kamala Harris.

PORTER: You’re welcome.

SHAPIRO: Tomorrow, someone who worked with Kamala Harris when she was California’s attorney general – he left the job after just five months.

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